Weissmann: A new topic: Before the pandemic, younger people were not picking up golf and skiing as quickly as older people were dropping them. But during the pandemic, both got a huge lift. Skiing had its best year since 2002 last year, and golf, as an allowable outdoor activity, rebounded. Is this going to last?
Alexander: 100%.
Weissmann: Why do you say that?
Alexander: Just seeing the number of people. I skied a little bit during the pandemic, in Pennsylvania in 2021 and in Utah this past March. Ski trips tend to be family vacations. That’s here to stay, for sure. And hotels are building more around mountains, purchasing more and more land. I personally love it, and we see tons of demand for ski trips.
Licea: I think a lot of people pulled away from skiing because it became less predictable. It used to be that in December, you were guaranteed X feet of snow. That’s not the case anymore. So, people don’t want their vacation ruined by planning to go skiing and then there’s no snow or not enough snow. I think that’s still going to be an issue, despite the resurgence.
Ellwood: One thing related to skiing, but which we haven’t discussed, is that there are big chunks of the world’s luxury travelers who are not present at the moment. The Chinese are not present. Nor the Japanese. The Russians are present; most wealthy Russians hedged and have multiple passports.
Licea: They’re all in the U.K. now.
Ellwood: Russian travelers may be able to travel, but there is a social stigma. One of my sources in Monaco said, “Russians don’t want to be here because they worry about how people will react to Russian voices.” They feel self-conscious just by being Russian as an abstract idea representing the Russian regime. A hotelier in Europe said to me, “This summer, Americans are the new Russians. Americans are the big spenders. They dominate everything.” But there is a bigger picture. What happens when the Chinese come back?
Weissmann: On to another topic: Space travel took off over the past two years — Virgin Galactic, SpaceX and Blue Origin. Axiom is building a private space station that’s going to have a dedicated room for a space tourist. And now there are two high-altitude balloon companies, Space Perspective and World View. So, after decades of promises, can we finally get excited about space travel? And do you individually have a desire to do that?
Licea: It’s something I’ve been working on for a year. I’ve spent time with the atmosphere travel companies, World View and Space Perspective. Do I think going outside the atmosphere in a Virgin Galactic-type vehicle is going to be for everybody soon? I don’t. But I do think the atmosphere travel is. You don’t have to go through long training. Just a couple of days on the ground, make sure the weather is correct and you can ascend into the atmosphere and look down on the Earth. I believe this is something that will be for our consumer type.
Is it for everybody right now? No, it’s just like the airlines in the ‘50s; not everybody could fly, right? Because you couldn’t afford to. And this is not inexpensive. It’s $100,000 to $150,000 per seat. But that is doable for our consumer type. With Space Perspective, the first year is already sold out and the second year is almost sold out, as is much of the third and fourth year. Same with World View. The pods have about eight seats in them, and we absolutely have consumers who will buy a pod or a capsule, and take their family, their friends, or whatever, up into space.
Ellwood: Do you think they’re going to buy it for year three? Because I don’t. I think everyone wants to have the Instagram picture first.
We’ve covered space travel a lot. Our readers have the money and are interested. What I don’t know is whether this has staying power. You want to be the first astronaut, not the hundredth.
Licea: To your point, it will have to evolve. Space Perspective is only launching from Cape Canaveral at first but plans for locations around the world. Consumers will want to see what it looks like from Australia, from Hawaii, from wherever.
Ellwood: That’s interesting.
Stephen Scott: We’ve been working this, as well, and it’s one of the highest viewed pages on our website. The activity and viewership is there. It’s a very different experience from Virgin Galactic, where you’re shot into space on a rocket. With Space Perspective and other balloon experiences, it’s a slow rise until you get to the top. Two hours up, two hours in space, two hours back down. It has a bathroom, you can drink, you can put your logo on the side. When the first Instagram shots go up, it’ll be 7 million views, and that’ll be fuel to the fire. What we saw with William Shatner, for example, was cool, but we were looking at it from the outside. Wait until somebody does an interview from space, Tom Cruise up there, sitting, doing an interview in space. It’s going to become global.
Ellwood: Battleface, which is such a great insurance company for extreme adventures, now has a commercial space product. Obviously, it’s very canny and great PR, designed to make us do exactly this — talk about it. But it does tell you that there is a business opportunity there right now, for sure.
Weissmann: Who here wants to go?
Licea: I’m going.
Stephen Scott: I’m going to go!
Katherine Scott: Personally, I hate heights. It’s a big no. At least, not now. I’m not the pioneer type. I’m going to let other people try first. And then, if I say see it’s safe, why not? It’s affordable. I know for a fact that my clients will put it on their bucket lists. But for me, not yet.
Borges: And that’s why it’s going to last for more than a few years. I would do it, absolutely, especially now that I hear the word “atmosphere.” I’m sold on that.
To your point, it’s kind of scary still, but there are pioneers. And the price will go down. But even for 150 grand — you know, you fly transatlantic on a private jet — it’s not that different, the cost.
Alexander: You could get a yacht on the Amalfi Coast for that.
Borges: Exactly. It’s not stupidly priced.
Alexander: For now, there’s a lot more people who would rather take that yacht for a week.
Ellwood: I’m not saying people can’t afford it. I guess this is a chicken-and-the-egg question. Jim Kitchen went up in Blue Origin, and he talked me through it. Yeah, he had a great time, but he’s an adventurer.
Licea: There’s a million adventurers in this world and there’s only limited seats right now.
Alexander:I think there’s going to be greater opportunity — Stephen mentioned something for corporates, for businesses.
Weissmann: Take your six best clients up …
Licea: Exactly.
Alexander: With your company logo on the side. After they get past the pioneers, I think that’s where we’re going to be.
Borges: The pricing is achievable. Maybe it’s your 50th birthday, maybe it’s your wedding. There’s going to be a celebration that you can match.
Weissmann: Bachelor parties, bachelorette parties.
Licea: I could see people renting a capsule and proposing in space. I mean, in the atmosphere.
Stephen Scott: She’d better say yes for that price!
Licea: I think a big piece that’s missing now that is a huge opportunity for the industry is the “before and after.” The weather has to be ideal. So, you go there and get your training, but there has to be a ground-before and a ground-after, right? There’s also an opportunity to create an environment around the event that is on-the-ground luxury, immersing them in the culture of the specific location. So, let’s say balloon launches from Rio. You can build a cultural experience around that location, because if that balloon is delayed three days, what are they going to do? Sit in their hotel room for three days? No. Build the experience. So, I think we as an industry have an opportunity and probably a responsibility to build that need around on the ground.
Ellwood: I’m waiting, though. You know, all of these airlines are sitting on vast piles of loyalty points that they want to get rid of. And just like the Ritz Carlton yacht offers a wonderful way to get those Bonvoy points purged from the bottom line, I’m waiting for the first announcement that you can use your Sky Miles on a spaceflight, and it’ll cost you 10 million points.
Alexander: Wait a minute. The Ritz Carlton yacht needs to exist though before they can do that.
Weissmann: Mark, it’s funny you should say that about Bonvoy. I moderated a panel at CES this year that had Space Perspective’s Jane Poynter and Marriott president Stephanie Linnartz, and I asked Linnartz if she would accept Bonvoy points for space travel. She looked at Poynter and said, “We should talk.”
Licea: If I were an airline, I would do be looking into that right away.
Stephen Scott: To Angie’s other point, as an advisor, I think it would be to a consumer’s advantage to call us rather than book direct. There’s so much more to what that experience could be besides the journey. You speak to an advisor, and you can build an itinerary around it. That’s going to make it even more special.
Alexander: There’s going to be a gazillion questions beyond even the experience — around insurance, liability. To do a great job, there will probably have to be certified specialists in the advisor community. And a client who’s interested might not even think to come to a traditional travel advisor. There should be partnerships that will educate, certify and even license people to see it.